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Suggest Treatment For Spinal Stenosis

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Posted on Tue, 5 Apr 2016
Question: I recently had a MRI which was diagnosed by radioligist as spinal stenosis. I submitted the image to a spine laser hospital and they further added disc compression and a bone spur. I am on Medicare and laser surgery is not covered. I am looking for non invasive treatment options. Can I upload my MRI to this site and schedule an online consult6 with a spinal surgeon?
doctor
Answered by Dr. Dariush Saghafi (56 minutes later)
Brief Answer:
You can certainly upload a couple of MRI images BUT

Detailed Answer:
Good evening and thank you very much for asking your question on Healthcaremagic. I am a neurologist and have many patients that I consult on for NONINVASIVE options to spinal canal stenosis. I'm happy to hear that you are not simply jumping to one of those Laser Surgery Clinics that I've had many patients complain of in terms of outcomes and cost. Virtually none of my patients have their costs covered by insurance and expectations are almost universally completely different from what they actually get after recovery.....as I usually predict. Therefore, I would definitely question the diagnoses of "disc compression and bone spur" as being clinically significant to your pain and discomfort since these findings are seen in numbers of patients who in fact, have NO SYMPTOMS of pain or discomfort. But when it comes to a Boutique Clinic making diagnoses that compel patients to do surgery these are terrific hooks to use against people who are lay and do not understand how absolutely insignificant these findings can be as far as symptoms are concerned.

Now, a word on how to upload MRI images. Even though you can certainly upload a few images that may be highly representative of spinal canal stenosis there are literally scores of images that are present on your CD...in fact, maybe even hundreds of images depending on if they did contrast or not. The reason for that incredible number as opposed to X-rays or CT scans is because the thickness of image slices is on the order of 1-2 mm. And in order to CLEARLY SEE what is going on in an MRI study the reader must have a series of images (both SAGITTAL- profile view shots; as well as AXIAL- cross sectional shots) at a variety of levels. This allows a 3D volume to be seen in 2D. Many patients make the mistake of only uploading a 1 or 2 images and unless those images are absolutely DIAGNOSTIC of the problem (which is rare) then, they are of little value.

The best way I've found for people to upload images for doctors to read when it comes to MRI's and such is to use an application or program called DROPBOX. There you can upload an entire CD ROM or DVD of images, give the URL of your account to the physician looking at the films and then, they can go and look at them in their entirety in your folder. If you were going to try and upload all the images here I don't think it would even be possible since you'd have to upload them 1 image at a time and I'm sure there is a limit in terms of memory on the page that would stop you from uploading well before you'd get to the end of the CD.

As far as a "spinal surgeon" is concerned you could be talking about either an orthopedist or a neurosurgeon when it comes to surgery on something like this, however, when it comes to spinal stenosis I always recommend that patients at least TRY a good effort at conservative approaches before undergoing either "the knife" or the "laser." I believe you could set up an appointment with someone of that nature but I don't know the mechanics of going about such a proposition. You'd want to call the TECH SUPPORT folks here on this network for that type of assistance.

You could, however, continue this conversation with myself since it's been started. You'd have a total of 3 more questions you could potentially pose with responses before you'd have to close the query and recharge the discussion with another thread of 4 questions.

As I've said a conservative approach is always best in my opinion and depending on just how extensive the spinal canal stenosis is and over how many spinal levels it traverses, surgery may or may not be a reasonable option. Or if it is...you may be better off looking at minimally invasive surgery...on the other hand if there are other considerations such as compressed discs and bony spur complexes that are definitely clinically relevant to your symptoms you may better off with an open radical procedure. It all depends on your symptoms, your restrictions on activities and interference with normal routine daily sorts of things, and what other medical problems you may have at the same time (heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, etc.)

I find that exercises to ease the pain and discomfort of spinal canal stenosis can be land based or aquatherapy may also be helpful. I do not find CHIROPRACTIC manipulation of any value in patients with canal stenosis and especially when it is in the neck I universally counsel my patients NOT TO USE chiropractic manipulations since these are extremely dangerous and can have serious outcomes (even death; which I've seen on one occasion while in training). Do not even accept deep massage type of therapy in the neck...this area is way too fragile to allow people to work blindly. Shots of cortisone and other pain medications are also on my list of NOT FAVORITE options for many reasons; one of which is they generally seem to have a very short longevity of action despite what the pain guys will tell you is the average. Plus, ultimately, the injected material can and does cause damage and deterioration of bony and cartilaginous/soft tissue structures which are necessary for stability of the column due to chemical reactivity forces, Steroids are known to be particularly notorious at causing weakening of ligaments and tendons as well as causing osteopenia and if severe enough, osteoporosis.

I hope this addresses your concerns and that you'll keep me in mind for future questions regarding these or other neurological/medical issues. Feel free to upload images if you like but just keep in mind what I've said about that process and call TECHNICAL SUPPORT if necessary.

Otherwise, I'd appreciate your rating this interaction with a HIGH STAR SCORE and look forward to a few words of feedback. In addition, I'd appreciate your CLOSING THIS QUERY if you're satisfied with my response.

Write to me any time at: bit.ly/drdariushsaghafi for additional comments, concerns, or to provide status updates if you'd like which I would love to receive from you to see just what has been discovered.

This consult request has taken a total of 46 minutes of time to read, research, and respond.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
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Answered by
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Dr. Dariush Saghafi

Neurologist

Practicing since :1988

Answered : 2473 Questions

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Suggest Treatment For Spinal Stenosis

Brief Answer: You can certainly upload a couple of MRI images BUT Detailed Answer: Good evening and thank you very much for asking your question on Healthcaremagic. I am a neurologist and have many patients that I consult on for NONINVASIVE options to spinal canal stenosis. I'm happy to hear that you are not simply jumping to one of those Laser Surgery Clinics that I've had many patients complain of in terms of outcomes and cost. Virtually none of my patients have their costs covered by insurance and expectations are almost universally completely different from what they actually get after recovery.....as I usually predict. Therefore, I would definitely question the diagnoses of "disc compression and bone spur" as being clinically significant to your pain and discomfort since these findings are seen in numbers of patients who in fact, have NO SYMPTOMS of pain or discomfort. But when it comes to a Boutique Clinic making diagnoses that compel patients to do surgery these are terrific hooks to use against people who are lay and do not understand how absolutely insignificant these findings can be as far as symptoms are concerned. Now, a word on how to upload MRI images. Even though you can certainly upload a few images that may be highly representative of spinal canal stenosis there are literally scores of images that are present on your CD...in fact, maybe even hundreds of images depending on if they did contrast or not. The reason for that incredible number as opposed to X-rays or CT scans is because the thickness of image slices is on the order of 1-2 mm. And in order to CLEARLY SEE what is going on in an MRI study the reader must have a series of images (both SAGITTAL- profile view shots; as well as AXIAL- cross sectional shots) at a variety of levels. This allows a 3D volume to be seen in 2D. Many patients make the mistake of only uploading a 1 or 2 images and unless those images are absolutely DIAGNOSTIC of the problem (which is rare) then, they are of little value. The best way I've found for people to upload images for doctors to read when it comes to MRI's and such is to use an application or program called DROPBOX. There you can upload an entire CD ROM or DVD of images, give the URL of your account to the physician looking at the films and then, they can go and look at them in their entirety in your folder. If you were going to try and upload all the images here I don't think it would even be possible since you'd have to upload them 1 image at a time and I'm sure there is a limit in terms of memory on the page that would stop you from uploading well before you'd get to the end of the CD. As far as a "spinal surgeon" is concerned you could be talking about either an orthopedist or a neurosurgeon when it comes to surgery on something like this, however, when it comes to spinal stenosis I always recommend that patients at least TRY a good effort at conservative approaches before undergoing either "the knife" or the "laser." I believe you could set up an appointment with someone of that nature but I don't know the mechanics of going about such a proposition. You'd want to call the TECH SUPPORT folks here on this network for that type of assistance. You could, however, continue this conversation with myself since it's been started. You'd have a total of 3 more questions you could potentially pose with responses before you'd have to close the query and recharge the discussion with another thread of 4 questions. As I've said a conservative approach is always best in my opinion and depending on just how extensive the spinal canal stenosis is and over how many spinal levels it traverses, surgery may or may not be a reasonable option. Or if it is...you may be better off looking at minimally invasive surgery...on the other hand if there are other considerations such as compressed discs and bony spur complexes that are definitely clinically relevant to your symptoms you may better off with an open radical procedure. It all depends on your symptoms, your restrictions on activities and interference with normal routine daily sorts of things, and what other medical problems you may have at the same time (heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, etc.) I find that exercises to ease the pain and discomfort of spinal canal stenosis can be land based or aquatherapy may also be helpful. I do not find CHIROPRACTIC manipulation of any value in patients with canal stenosis and especially when it is in the neck I universally counsel my patients NOT TO USE chiropractic manipulations since these are extremely dangerous and can have serious outcomes (even death; which I've seen on one occasion while in training). Do not even accept deep massage type of therapy in the neck...this area is way too fragile to allow people to work blindly. Shots of cortisone and other pain medications are also on my list of NOT FAVORITE options for many reasons; one of which is they generally seem to have a very short longevity of action despite what the pain guys will tell you is the average. Plus, ultimately, the injected material can and does cause damage and deterioration of bony and cartilaginous/soft tissue structures which are necessary for stability of the column due to chemical reactivity forces, Steroids are known to be particularly notorious at causing weakening of ligaments and tendons as well as causing osteopenia and if severe enough, osteoporosis. I hope this addresses your concerns and that you'll keep me in mind for future questions regarding these or other neurological/medical issues. Feel free to upload images if you like but just keep in mind what I've said about that process and call TECHNICAL SUPPORT if necessary. Otherwise, I'd appreciate your rating this interaction with a HIGH STAR SCORE and look forward to a few words of feedback. In addition, I'd appreciate your CLOSING THIS QUERY if you're satisfied with my response. Write to me any time at: bit.ly/drdariushsaghafi for additional comments, concerns, or to provide status updates if you'd like which I would love to receive from you to see just what has been discovered. This consult request has taken a total of 46 minutes of time to read, research, and respond.