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What Causes False Positive EtG Urine Test Results For Alcohol?
Question: took etg lab test at 500 cutoff. results came back presumptive positive. prior to lab test bac was 0 at 78 hrs. before lab test. prior to lab test too4 etg dip test at 300 cutoff. at 72, 74, 76, and 771/2 hrs all dip tests were negative . why the large variance between the to test types and will confirmation come back positive or negative at 500 level
taking dip tests at 300 multiple times before actual ua has been my procedure. Always when multiple dip tests were negative at 300..lab tests came back not detected. same batch of tests what is different now
taking dip tests at 300 multiple times before actual ua has been my procedure. Always when multiple dip tests were negative at 300..lab tests came back not detected. same batch of tests what is different now
Brief Answer:
This is quite a confusing question, but....
Detailed Answer:
First, nobody outside of a research study gets labs that many multiple times.
Ok, I can assume that the test is for blood alcohol?
oh ETG, I thought it was EFG for a bit.
Ok, first, the test can misfire if you have a urinary tract or yeast infection or, and this is important IF THE TEST HAS AN INFECTION. So, if the sample is sent out, and sits in a bin for 4 hours at room temperature, any microorganisms present will grow and they often make alcohol. One of the clues to this (this is actually one of the most common questions on this site) is if the level is 1000 times higher than the usual level (implying that you are dead and preserved/pickled in alcohol OR germs were growing in the urine). That is easy to verify if it occurred. YOu ask for the level, if it has many zeros or is too high to determine just remind them you are living.
Then, different dipstick tests are going to give different results. Sorry.
Ok, presumably there was no drinking during any of the time.
This is quite a confusing question, but....
Detailed Answer:
First, nobody outside of a research study gets labs that many multiple times.
Ok, I can assume that the test is for blood alcohol?
oh ETG, I thought it was EFG for a bit.
Ok, first, the test can misfire if you have a urinary tract or yeast infection or, and this is important IF THE TEST HAS AN INFECTION. So, if the sample is sent out, and sits in a bin for 4 hours at room temperature, any microorganisms present will grow and they often make alcohol. One of the clues to this (this is actually one of the most common questions on this site) is if the level is 1000 times higher than the usual level (implying that you are dead and preserved/pickled in alcohol OR germs were growing in the urine). That is easy to verify if it occurred. YOu ask for the level, if it has many zeros or is too high to determine just remind them you are living.
Then, different dipstick tests are going to give different results. Sorry.
Ok, presumably there was no drinking during any of the time.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by :
Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
you told me nothing...let us try again. I take regular etg urine tests for alcohol. the tests are sent to a lab at a 500 cut off.to ensure that I will pass at 500 I take a dip etg test supplied by a reputable company at the 300 cutoff level.i test myself multiple times before I take the "real" test. ifollow the same procedure each time. the tests usually will come back from the lab as not detecting alcohol on this occasion I tested myself with the dip test at 72, 74, 76, 771/2hrs. all were negative. wheni took the real test at 500 it came back preunitve positive pending lcms confirmation. why would this situation differ from previous occasions. why the discrepancy in the two test. will the confirmation come back positive or negative...what is your best guess
are you still there?
are you still there?
Brief Answer:
Thank you for elaborating and giving me the opportunity to continue answer.
Detailed Answer:
Ok. Here are all the possibilities.
One of the tests are WRONG. This can occur from germs growing in a sample and making alcohol (common). There can be a plain lab error in processing the sample (rare, but can this be zero possibility?).
The test can be RIGHT. You could have alcohol in your system. There is alcohol in a lot of things that are not beverages. They are considered possible to contaminate this lab test. This is somewhat controversial BUT hand sanitizer and aftershave ON you are considered as possible to get into you. The reason for the 500 cut off is that this makes this much less likely. THen there are substances that are alcohol that you might have missed. Mouthwash is well known to mess up this test. Some foods/sauces have alcohol in them.
Ok, if it were me, I'd be taking the tests even if I were not taking any alcohol. I assumed that you are doing everything you possibly can to have the test be negative and that as far as you are able you are not taking any alcohol. Frankly, it might be tricky for me to pass this because I'm around alcohol like substances as a doctor all the time (alcohol wipes) and around a lot of different foods/sauces that at one point had alcohol (I'm seriously wondering about soy sauce, pickles, raw cheeses and other fermented substances).
OH, presumptive positive. Hard to say. About 10% of the presumptives are not positive for my patients for all drugs at the local LABCORP. I have no idea why that is. I might mention that the other lab I use has a lot more NOISE than labcorp but this isn't relevant here. The noise is values that are at very low levels of detection and do not fit with a reasonable pattern (drug but no drug metabolite or one metabolite but not any others that would be there and all barely at the level of detection). But there's no science on this.
Seriously, I've looked over the 100 or so article on the subject in the medical literature. This is all of it. Seriously, is there any possibility, any possible area of possibility or research conceivable outside of these?
And lastly, thank you for asking for a follow up. I regretted not adding the part about incidental alcohol exposures but hit the send button before I remembered it. Also, I wasn't sure I understood the question fully so the presumptive part got overlooked.
Thank you for elaborating and giving me the opportunity to continue answer.
Detailed Answer:
Ok. Here are all the possibilities.
One of the tests are WRONG. This can occur from germs growing in a sample and making alcohol (common). There can be a plain lab error in processing the sample (rare, but can this be zero possibility?).
The test can be RIGHT. You could have alcohol in your system. There is alcohol in a lot of things that are not beverages. They are considered possible to contaminate this lab test. This is somewhat controversial BUT hand sanitizer and aftershave ON you are considered as possible to get into you. The reason for the 500 cut off is that this makes this much less likely. THen there are substances that are alcohol that you might have missed. Mouthwash is well known to mess up this test. Some foods/sauces have alcohol in them.
Ok, if it were me, I'd be taking the tests even if I were not taking any alcohol. I assumed that you are doing everything you possibly can to have the test be negative and that as far as you are able you are not taking any alcohol. Frankly, it might be tricky for me to pass this because I'm around alcohol like substances as a doctor all the time (alcohol wipes) and around a lot of different foods/sauces that at one point had alcohol (I'm seriously wondering about soy sauce, pickles, raw cheeses and other fermented substances).
OH, presumptive positive. Hard to say. About 10% of the presumptives are not positive for my patients for all drugs at the local LABCORP. I have no idea why that is. I might mention that the other lab I use has a lot more NOISE than labcorp but this isn't relevant here. The noise is values that are at very low levels of detection and do not fit with a reasonable pattern (drug but no drug metabolite or one metabolite but not any others that would be there and all barely at the level of detection). But there's no science on this.
Seriously, I've looked over the 100 or so article on the subject in the medical literature. This is all of it. Seriously, is there any possibility, any possible area of possibility or research conceivable outside of these?
And lastly, thank you for asking for a follow up. I regretted not adding the part about incidental alcohol exposures but hit the send button before I remembered it. Also, I wasn't sure I understood the question fully so the presumptive part got overlooked.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by :
Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
thank you for your time and patience. I really can not understand it..except for the cheeses and sauces which I have been hitting very hard. in addition I have been using an arthritis spray with menthol and meehyl salicylate in it.an inactice ingredient includes alcohol denat plus all kinds of weird plant extracts. this is a cold and hold spray that I used liberal and I know I sprayed my knee before I went in for test. could this have an effect or am I simply grasping at straws.
I mean I regularly test my bac with an alcohohawk breathilizer just for the hell of it to see if some things would effect bac.i know for a fact that bac was 0 78hrs. before I took the test and that is way close if not at the range of the test I am really scared and just can not figure it out
I mean I regularly test my bac with an alcohohawk breathilizer just for the hell of it to see if some things would effect bac.i know for a fact that bac was 0 78hrs. before I took the test and that is way close if not at the range of the test I am really scared and just can not figure it out
Brief Answer:
ah HA!
Detailed Answer:
Well, I enjoy all the questions, but this is a really an especially interesting topic.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/0000
hand sanitizer shows up as alcohol.
Hand sanitizer is a little bit controversial, but mostly it is felt likely to cause false tests.
ALSO, it's in the urine, if the URINE is overly concentrated (which occurs with AGING...heh... we're the same age) then the amount of ETG goes up. The levels are higher with age. This probably accounts for some of the wide variation in amounts seen in the urine. None of the studies finds a good correlation between amount drunk and the amount of ETG. Basically it is a yes/no response and even trivial amounts of alcohol intake (maybe more than 1 sip but certainly sometimes less than the legal limit) will show up just as positive as living on alcohol. There isn't a test to say if someone the day before had 10 drinks versus 1. And several things (which you have mentioned!) will cause false positives. The denatured alcohol is pretty close to guaranteed to show up as positive. Other alcohols are LIKELY to show up.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/0000
non-ethyl alcohol shows up as ETG also.
Yeah, that will definitely do it.
ah HA!
Detailed Answer:
Well, I enjoy all the questions, but this is a really an especially interesting topic.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/0000
hand sanitizer shows up as alcohol.
Hand sanitizer is a little bit controversial, but mostly it is felt likely to cause false tests.
ALSO, it's in the urine, if the URINE is overly concentrated (which occurs with AGING...heh... we're the same age) then the amount of ETG goes up. The levels are higher with age. This probably accounts for some of the wide variation in amounts seen in the urine. None of the studies finds a good correlation between amount drunk and the amount of ETG. Basically it is a yes/no response and even trivial amounts of alcohol intake (maybe more than 1 sip but certainly sometimes less than the legal limit) will show up just as positive as living on alcohol. There isn't a test to say if someone the day before had 10 drinks versus 1. And several things (which you have mentioned!) will cause false positives. The denatured alcohol is pretty close to guaranteed to show up as positive. Other alcohols are LIKELY to show up.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/0000
non-ethyl alcohol shows up as ETG also.
Yeah, that will definitely do it.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by :
Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
thank you again!!! I do not mind paying more for the extra questions if I must so, you think the use of the arthritis spray soon before the test could explain the variance between the dip test and the lab test
sorry about continuing to ask...but your answers could literally save my life, home and extended jail time. So here it is....As a physician do you believe that the arthritis pray with alcohol and wacky plant extracts are most likely the cause of the presumptive positive and would be constrewed as a plausible explanatiom. please answer. if you say yes ...I will claim a sore (documented) knee and stupidity for not reading the labelas the culprit... I have and continue to declare that I did not consume alcoholic beverages thank you your ansew is very important to me!
sorry about typos but am excited to to find a plausible explanation. I just could not believe it or figure out. I have been awake since 5;00am yesterday and I would surely like to get some peaceful sleep. again please reply asap and I really thank you. is there some kind of rating I should give you or a comment board. I believe you deserve the highest rating or praise that can be given for your hard work and dedication once again thank you.. XXXXXXX
sorry about continuing to ask...but your answers could literally save my life, home and extended jail time. So here it is....As a physician do you believe that the arthritis pray with alcohol and wacky plant extracts are most likely the cause of the presumptive positive and would be constrewed as a plausible explanatiom. please answer. if you say yes ...I will claim a sore (documented) knee and stupidity for not reading the labelas the culprit... I have and continue to declare that I did not consume alcoholic beverages thank you your ansew is very important to me!
sorry about typos but am excited to to find a plausible explanation. I just could not believe it or figure out. I have been awake since 5;00am yesterday and I would surely like to get some peaceful sleep. again please reply asap and I really thank you. is there some kind of rating I should give you or a comment board. I believe you deserve the highest rating or praise that can be given for your hard work and dedication once again thank you.. XXXXXXX
Brief Answer:
Oh, you are certainly welcome
Detailed Answer:
No, for the time and fun aspect, it runs certainly well into the range I'd get working at an ER. Frankly, because I'm really good at this, I can answer about 1 question per minute if there were enough questions coming. This would be far above what I'd make as a cardiac surgeon! I just only get maybe one question a week. and I''m on two different websites. (this one is better).
so, tell your friends about (me in particular for any drug/pharmacology questions).
Be sure to copy down the research paper links. While I'm an MD PhD in pharmacology the employers could go "well, who is this guy anyway". but with a few scientific citations from the medical journals they are going to be hard pressed to doubt you on this. AND, if they've actually had any experience they'd know that there's a small number of people with problems who are going to fail Every Single Time and then there's you and in those who pop up once, like, ever, there's something other than abuse that is occurring.
Thank you again, and we're always here for you!
Oh, you are certainly welcome
Detailed Answer:
No, for the time and fun aspect, it runs certainly well into the range I'd get working at an ER. Frankly, because I'm really good at this, I can answer about 1 question per minute if there were enough questions coming. This would be far above what I'd make as a cardiac surgeon! I just only get maybe one question a week. and I''m on two different websites. (this one is better).
so, tell your friends about (me in particular for any drug/pharmacology questions).
Be sure to copy down the research paper links. While I'm an MD PhD in pharmacology the employers could go "well, who is this guy anyway". but with a few scientific citations from the medical journals they are going to be hard pressed to doubt you on this. AND, if they've actually had any experience they'd know that there's a small number of people with problems who are going to fail Every Single Time and then there's you and in those who pop up once, like, ever, there's something other than abuse that is occurring.
Thank you again, and we're always here for you!
Above answer was peer-reviewed by :
Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
so you think I will be ok...if so we can begin a chat about the pros and cons of a hip replacement I am serious left one is near useless (bone on bone) right one is close. so really think I am ok please just one more time assure it will be an ok explanation
Brief Answer:
No, you've got a bad hip
Detailed Answer:
I'd seriously consider getting the replacement at our age.
So, on the test. I am not going to say anything about the fairness of employers. They could decide to use this to fire you Just To Get a Cheaper Replacement. I can say what the scientific literautre says. I can say there is consistence across all the tests by explaining it by a hand sanitizer and that intermittant uncontrolled drinking would not be expected to give the pattern of teests you are saying. Indeed it doesn't seem really even possible for alcoholism to follow this pattern.
Then , on the hip. I cannot say about your particular situation without directly examining you. BUT, bone on bone implies a certain degree of problems. While the hardware wears out in about 15 years. That is 58 to 73 in good shape versus not being able to walk for most of it. While it might be recommended to wait until a bit older, this seems not that good of an idea.
There is some risk surgery will make it worse. There are some risks of every surgery including infecdion, pain, bleeding. Getting in touch with as many former pateints as possible would be helpful for evaluation. and the risks are generally pretty small.
No, you've got a bad hip
Detailed Answer:
I'd seriously consider getting the replacement at our age.
So, on the test. I am not going to say anything about the fairness of employers. They could decide to use this to fire you Just To Get a Cheaper Replacement. I can say what the scientific literautre says. I can say there is consistence across all the tests by explaining it by a hand sanitizer and that intermittant uncontrolled drinking would not be expected to give the pattern of teests you are saying. Indeed it doesn't seem really even possible for alcoholism to follow this pattern.
Then , on the hip. I cannot say about your particular situation without directly examining you. BUT, bone on bone implies a certain degree of problems. While the hardware wears out in about 15 years. That is 58 to 73 in good shape versus not being able to walk for most of it. While it might be recommended to wait until a bit older, this seems not that good of an idea.
There is some risk surgery will make it worse. There are some risks of every surgery including infecdion, pain, bleeding. Getting in touch with as many former pateints as possible would be helpful for evaluation. and the risks are generally pretty small.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by :
Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
not funny doc! I am a newly retired school teacher from the XXXXXXX City (md) public if you want to actually call it a school system. employers/ job is not a problem counselor and po officer are the problems. are your conclusions at least enough to cause reasonable doubt of intentional imbibing.....I have put off hip for about 2 years. retired because of chronic disability. it hurts but it is tlerabl and I am mostly functional. I do stumble bumble around on a cane 60% of the time. problem is logistical (u can tell I am a teacher...I can not spell) I own my own house, no wife, no kids, only my goofy hound dog. this why this test is so important...I have no one to help..or manage things if I am in jail or laid up with injury. so again will your explanation stand up to scrutiny in a court of law as a viable alternative to drinking or am I screwed. ....besides right now I am too chiken to become a cyborg...guess I will wait awhile. if you kno any legal otc remedies for pain please pass them on.
sorry, forgot to tell you. they do not know I test myself at home before I take the "real" test all they know is the one test they see from the lab at 500. that is why I test myself to make sure I do not fail that is why when it came back positive I freaked.make sense to you?
sorry, forgot to tell you. they do not know I test myself at home before I take the "real" test all they know is the one test they see from the lab at 500. that is why I test myself to make sure I do not fail that is why when it came back positive I freaked.make sense to you?
Brief Answer:
sorry, I meant to be entirely serious!
Detailed Answer:
More than reasonable doubt. Personally, I would put the predominant evidence being that it was the hand sanitizer. First, there is the preponderance of scientific opinion that hand sanitizer does this. Second, there are the other tests. Third there is a total lack of a pattern of abuse.
Hmm... gee, you could contact a Board Certified addiction specialist in the Maryland area with a MD and a PhD in pharmacology as an expert witness...
oh
wait...
you have....
hello. Meh, I'm in the Googles to contact me otherwise.
Ok, Next question on pain. Cannot say in your particular case without a direct examination. AND, in cases of chronic osteoarthritis pain, one could try non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, spray ben-gay type medicines are also helpful and work differently (and they are the ones that we are discussing as a problem).
Mostly physical methods are used: heat, aquatherapy, physical therapy.
sorry, I meant to be entirely serious!
Detailed Answer:
More than reasonable doubt. Personally, I would put the predominant evidence being that it was the hand sanitizer. First, there is the preponderance of scientific opinion that hand sanitizer does this. Second, there are the other tests. Third there is a total lack of a pattern of abuse.
Hmm... gee, you could contact a Board Certified addiction specialist in the Maryland area with a MD and a PhD in pharmacology as an expert witness...
oh
wait...
you have....
hello. Meh, I'm in the Googles to contact me otherwise.
Ok, Next question on pain. Cannot say in your particular case without a direct examination. AND, in cases of chronic osteoarthritis pain, one could try non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, spray ben-gay type medicines are also helpful and work differently (and they are the ones that we are discussing as a problem).
Mostly physical methods are used: heat, aquatherapy, physical therapy.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by :
Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
idid not use hand sanitizer...should I lie or just stick with what is truth and a plausible explanation...stupidity. remember...they do not know about my comparative dip tests. they may wonder why I am taking them at all. oh well...its because I do not trust the system..it has screwed me too many times.i am not afraid to say it. And by the way, I was going to ask how to locate and find an expert witness in drugs around here. how about an email address so I can let you know what happens. besides I might need an exam for a second opinion on my hip.after the exam we could have lunch/dinner ...get drunk then I will sober up spray my leg and take another test what do you think. seriously I thank you and would like to stay in contact. let me know how.
Brief Answer:
Ok, just I do not get drunk
Detailed Answer:
I don't have the wiring for it. And if you have a habit of getting drunk and trying to hide it I will not help you evade the law.
You will want to have the dip tests administered/witnessed by someone in addition to yourself. Unfortunately the hair test for ETG will also light up from alcohol exposures other than drinking.
I'm not sure I am allowed to give out my email address here. My office and phone number can be googled from my name so I hardly think that is violating any agreements I have with this or any other service.
Ok, just I do not get drunk
Detailed Answer:
I don't have the wiring for it. And if you have a habit of getting drunk and trying to hide it I will not help you evade the law.
You will want to have the dip tests administered/witnessed by someone in addition to yourself. Unfortunately the hair test for ETG will also light up from alcohol exposures other than drinking.
I'm not sure I am allowed to give out my email address here. My office and phone number can be googled from my name so I hardly think that is violating any agreements I have with this or any other service.
Note: For further guidance on mental health, Click here.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by :
Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
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