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Positive for iron poisoning. Had hip implant and chromium poisoning. Chances of copper and zinc deficiency?

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My wife tested positive for iron poisoning, with an iron reading of 231 and a transferrin saturation of 70%. Mysteriously, her ferritin reads only 27, an impossible combination after scanning almost 100 scolarly documents.
Other than the remote possibility of iron overload related copper and zinc deficiency, what could give this result? Having a liver mri tomorrow.
In 2010 she had a recalled depuy m-o-m hip implant removed, with accompanying massive chromium and cobalt poisoning. YYYY@YYYY
Posted Fri, 15 Feb 2013 in Medicines and Side Effects
Answered by Dr. Ram Choudhary 30 hours later
Welcome to healthcare Magic.
I agree with you it is strange to get this type of Iron serum reports.
It can be related to technical error so getting a repeat sample along with complete blood counts and liver function tests.
Also an ultrasound of whole abdomen is recommended.
I would like to know why all the tests were done and how the problem started.
The hip implant and cromium poisoning is also intriguing, I would try to find if any link with this.
I hope with this work up and MRI liver we would get leads in the case.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by
Follow-up: Positive for iron poisoning. Had hip implant and chromium poisoning. Chances of copper and zinc deficiency? 17 hours later
Dr. Choudhary,
Thank you for your reply.The numbers I gave you WERE a retest of results from last AUG. Iron was 191 in Aug. and 231 in Dec., with ferritin unchanged.All cbc and metabolic panels read normal.
The Aug. test series was done in search of cancer from co-cr metal poisoning, so other out of range factors were ignored until I brought it up. The other flag needing retesting was an epo reading of 45.4, which means the body is scrambling to repair things. Rbc and reticulocytes are low normal. Any comments on why epo is so high and how it ties in to the iron would be appreciated.
Every stage of specialist testing this past year(neurologist, hemo/oncologist, and immunologist) has shown data combinations that doctors say can't be happening. Her gammaglobulins and t-cells are low only for the subtypes that attack chemical toxins(IGg, IGm, cd4 and cd8). Per my own research, everything so far points to xenobiotic antagonists, more than likely co-cr metal oxide nanoparticles, which are powerful oxidizing agents , working catalytically producing ros for over 50 years in the body.
thank you, XXXXXXX
Answered by Dr. Ram Choudhary 22 hours later
Welcome back.
The problem is complex I am working on it.
I am trying to find a cause in literature with me.
Hope you would not mind the delay.
Meanwhile if you want to put additional detail, please feel free for that.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by
Follow-up: Positive for iron poisoning. Had hip implant and chromium poisoning. Chances of copper and zinc deficiency? 1 hour later
Dr. choudhary,
Thank you again. One more thing I wanted to mention was that for depuy asr hip implants specifically, a frequent occurrence has been false test results indicating presence of a variety of of very rare genetic diseases and other erroneous results.
From my lengthy studies, I attribute this in part to similar physiochemical properties of the period 4 transition elements, where excess of one or more leads to deficiencies of the others, leading to cellular signaling and countless other malfunctions. (atomic # 24-30). Hope this helps.
Answered by Dr. Ram Choudhary 17 hours later
Welcome back to healthcare Magic!
I want to have a word with my physician colleagues on this and with a hematologist here as well, a bit time consuming.
Would try to get through.
I hope the advise would be informative and useful for you.
Take Care!
Above answer was peer-reviewed by
Follow-up: Positive for iron poisoning. Had hip implant and chromium poisoning. Chances of copper and zinc deficiency? 1 hour later
Dr. Choudhary,
I really appreciate the effort. If you would include what we are looking for in the abdominal ultrasound that would help.

Answered by Dr. Ram Choudhary 32 hours later
Welcome to healthcare Magic!
I have searched and tried my sources and colleagues, again it is strange combination of lab. results in the iron overload. The iron and transferrin saturation of that range must give a plausible reading of ferritin as well. other thing missing is the source of iron overload which is uncertain, may be it did got eluted from the implant itself just like Cr/Co. One possibility is a patient who is having iron overload and Liver function nearing to failure when it would be unable to make sufficient ferritin(which is synthesized in liver).
The Cr has got two avatars Cr3+ and Cr6+. The first one occurs naturally in vegetables and meats and the latter gets in from external inanimate sources and is carcinogenic that why the doctors got a work up to rule out cancer in her case.
I wanted to get the Liver function tests for status of liver and the ultrasound abdomen just to make sure the viscera the spleen, pancreas, kidneys and liver are okay, if any problem then to what extent.
Has the MRI liver and Ultrasound and liver function been done? If results are out please let me know. I would like to help you out surely if I could.
I hope the advise would be informative and useful for you.
Take Care!
Above answer was peer-reviewed by
Follow-up: Positive for iron poisoning. Had hip implant and chromium poisoning. Chances of copper and zinc deficiency? 41 hours later
Dr. Choudhary,
First, there was no iron in the implant, just co-cr-mo alloy on the bearing surfaces with a titanium femoral shaft.
The ggpt test was normal at 38.
Followup visit revealed no evidence of iron or other abnormalities in the liver mri, other than a single benign cyst. From this the Dr. concluded that the iron overload tests were a false positive due to inflammation, and that no further tests would be authorized, and he quickly left the room. Since iron overload CAUSES inflammation this is a bit of circular logic, plus she is taking effective anti-inflammatories for her osteoarthritis. All 3 of the specialists have abruptly left the room, with fear in their eyes. This implant debris metal oxide nanoparticle toxicity problem is a multidiciplinary situation and it truly takes specialists out of their comfort zone. I would gladly ignore all of the test results if she were not so strongly symptomatic. With the rate of physical deterioration, I believe this is her last year. I guess my only question is suggestions on how to interest new doctors in taking on the case. I'm full of irrefutable research data but short on ideas on how to proceed.
thanks again, XXXXXXX
Answered by Dr. Ram Choudhary 44 hours later
You informed me that sgpt is okay but what is bilirubin, albumin and prothrombin time.
The strange thing is why the specialists had a fear in their eyes?
There are so many things we do not know their cause!
Medical science is also no exception.
Have hope, avoid talking about the end.
When we can not find the cause, we should try to correct the anomaly, here the raised iron levels are the threat so iron chelating agents should be started eg. Desferrioxamine, deferriprome etc. To bring the iron levels in safe range and then again try to find out the cause if iron levels build again.
Such complex issues can be discussed at a specialists board which should be held to spread awareness and simultaneously young doctors can also be educated on this apart from benefiting the patient.
I wish she would regain her baseline health.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by
Follow-up: Positive for iron poisoning. Had hip implant and chromium poisoning. Chances of copper and zinc deficiency? 36 hours later
Dr. Choudhary,
Test results you wanted, bilirubin 0.5, albumin 4.3, and prothrombin never tested.
As to the fear, it is partly because they (understandably) have no answers, and also because I am more informed on the subject, having spent over 2000 hours researching the arthroprosthetic metals phenomenon, so brushoff answers wouldn't work for them.
The most technically revealing document I have read is titled; Use of metal oxide nanoparticle bandgap to develop a predictive paradigm for oxidative stress and acute pulmonary inflammation. This 2012 study by the California nanosystems institute at UCLA is the culmination of 8 years of worldwide research into the toxicity of engineered nanoparticles(in Peggy's case inadvertently engineered), and becomes a testimony to the extreme toxicity of period 4 transition elements in nanoparticle form, including cobalt and chromium.
Also, FDA medwatch last week issued a safety alert for metal on metal implants, stating that afflictions are specific to individual patients, with different patients hving completely different reactions to the debris particles. A good explanation for this would be in the document just mentioned: The bandgap matches the body's redox couple electrical potential, short circuiting cellular signalling, sending erronius instructions systemwide, and in a time and dose dependent manner.
This is why I competely agree with you about the need for medical TEAM efforts to break the code. My attempts to connect her peripheral neuropathy, selective multiple immune deficiencies, debilitating pain and fatigue, high epo, iron overload readings that may or may not be valid, etc., have not been successful, but given that afflictions from hip debris have been declared by the FDA to be randomly individualized I can understand why.
The only valid biomarker would then be a patient presenting with a substantial list of rare and unrelated conditions that would be mathematically impossible to possess save for chronic arthroprosthetic cobalt/chromium exposure. So, the new discipline of attribution science is warranted here.
I would appreciate your input on how I can add to this and any other suggestions.
Answered by Dr. Ram Choudhary 10 hours later
Welcome to healthcare Magic!
The liver functions are okay as far as available data suggest.
Taking such case before the Medical board is a creative approach, different specialties should focus upon the problem.
The key persons are the physician, hematologist, nephrologist, orthopedician, pathologist and a toxicologist.
I can understand your dilemma and appreciate your efforts but the problem is quite crook to crack.
The treatment should be targeted at restoring normal iron levels by chelating agents.
her high EPO levels also are intriguing, the erythropoietin is known to cause a decreased secretion of hepcidin which normally keeps a tab on iron absorption.
Have you got the ultrasound abdomen yet.
Would like you know the report if it is done.
I wish a great health for you two.
I hope the advise would be informative and useful for you.
Take Care!
Above answer was peer-reviewed by
Follow-up: Positive for iron poisoning. Had hip implant and chromium poisoning. Chances of copper and zinc deficiency? 2 days later
Dr. Choudhary,
Thank you so much for informing me about the epo-hepcidin connection. It really put some pieces together. You can help me persuade our hematologist to restart the case if I can pass on sufficient information, as follows:
1. Might epo elevation alone induce enough hepcidin suppression to cause iron overload, and could it signal ferritin to dump it's iron(which was my ORIGINAL question)? Also does there exist a hepcidin test I could request, and are there medications that could raise it?
2. Cobalt chloride ingestion elevates epo by inducing hypoxia like responses thru generation of reactive oxygen species. Autopsies of metal hip patients show substantial storage of co-cr particles in kidney and liver(over 20 milligrams). Could these biopersistent solid cobalt particles induce the same elevated epo response?
3. Her rbc levels since implant have continuously been low or low normal, 3.3-4.0. With her epo exceeding double the upper limit, supposedly raising rbc's, which or all of this list may be or is likely true:
A. Bone marrow not responsive to epo instructions to raise rbc's.
B. Hemolysis is happening too fast for it to keep up. Hemolysis is a known complication of chromium exposure.
C. Oxygen level sensors are sending erroneous signals.
D. An effect of her hormone replacement medications(estradiol and provera).
E. Epo elevation simply a normal response to accelerated tissue repair, possibly due to metal nanoparticle induced redox.
F. Epo resistance developing in the body due to long term elevation.
Hope I haven't asked too much, but getting specialist doctor appointments in the XXXXXXX XXXXXXX area is very difficult unless you're in imminent danger. After the office visit on the 15th he just said come back in 6 months. Being armed with good words is a must. It would also help if you could tell me what you're looking for in the abdominal ultrasound so I could convince him to order the test.
There exist only 3 toxicologists in the state of California and none see patients.
Last week I re-started Peggy on the metal detox regimen that worked so well in eliminating free metallic co-cr from serum after revision surgery. All doctors were tight lipped about detox, so I had to design the mixture myself with a little help from an acupuncturist.
Answered by Dr. Ram Choudhary 47 hours later
Welcome to healthcare Magic!
1. Yes it is possible that excess EPO can cause iron overload through it's physiological role. It can not make ferritin to release it's iron. Hepcidin test is available in various laboratories today, there are no known drugs except external EPO injections that can cause effect on it's levels.
2. Hypoxia of any cause would raise EPO levels considerably 10 to 1000 times baseline.
3. A. It is possible in particular with toxic levels of heavy metal poisonings and hematologic malignancy causing para-neoplastic syndromes.
B. Yes, this is also may be a possibility. Chromium is a cause or not can be said.
C. Oxygen levels are sensed by body's very innate system and it can not be deceived so would not send wrong signals.
D. HRT not a likely cause for that.
E. Yes possible because it is elevated due to inflammation and tissue repair state.
F. Because inflammation is already in question so resistance to EPO is a poor option and is not seen normally.
The toxicologist even when do not see patient can give valuable inputs in such cases.
I have already given reasons for the ultrasound abdomen in earlier reply.
I would advise you not to devise any Detox regimen and try by yourself. It can be potentially detrimental if tried by non-medical persons. An acupuncturist is a get-crasher in today medicine management, his help can't be certified as valid.
I hope, I have answered your queries sufficiently
I hope the advise would be informative and useful for you.
Take Care!
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