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What Causes Fatigue And Brain Fog Before Menstrual Cycle?

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Posted on Mon, 7 Dec 2015
Question: Hello! I've been alright. Some weeks better than others :) but just sticking through it.
I've been noticing some patterns last month and this month (I'm not sure whether this happened before, I just now began noticing them). So what I noticed from last month and this month is that about 10-12 days before my mentarual cycle (when PMS begins) that's when I start having those weird issues with the fatigue and foggy feeling after eating. Although it's not as bad as before, it's there but only during those days. Let me just add that I also noticed that during these days the feeling is more intense when I eat simple carbs. And it's not every meal anymore, just noticed it's bad when I eat stuff like pizza or frozen yogurt as a meal. Although earlier I ate some egg whites with a weenie some cheese and one whole wheat toast with I can't believe it's not butter, and it still happened so I don't know. But the prior is just when I've noticed it more prominently.
About a day or two before my menstrual cycle begins I have gotten COMPLETELY foggy for a whole day and it doesn't even have to do with food. I'll just wake up and feel so confused and fatigued all day, then around two days after my menstrual cycle begins I'm back to being sharp and back to being able to eat what I want when I want. I feel like myself and perfectly fine for about two weeks after my menstrual cycle begins. Then once the PMS days begin (about 10-12 days before the beginning of my cycle) is when I start getting annoying symptoms after eating. I asked my ob/gyn why I felt so foggy one day and she said it was just fluctuation of hormones and gave me birth control (which I'm still reluctant to take...). My question is, how or why are hormones affecting my metabolism as far as eating? I know progesterone rises and estrogen dips during the third week of a woman's month cycle. Could fluctuating hormones be affecting my insulin release or something around that area? Thoughts?
P.S: Trust me, this is pretty accurate. I have a tracker I've been writing all my notes on. Oh and I also had a Celiac Test done and that is clear and nothing is wrong. Also no common allergens.
doctor
Answered by Dr. Dariush Saghafi (23 hours later)
Brief Answer:
Now your brain fog has become part of your PMS? You poor girl! ;)

Detailed Answer:
I was wondering about how things were going....where did we we leave things last time? Did I have any "homework" for you to do? Who were you going to follow up with next? So, before you were getting the symptoms just at the point when you would eat anything.....so that could literally be 3x/day......now, it's possibly adjusted its schedule to 10-12/month intersecting with your PMS time of the month. It seems that this "brain fog" is adjusting itself almost on a random basis on a month to month basis or something so that it's rather unpredictable but no question that the frequency and perhaps the severity of the symptoms are less than before.

Are you continuing to work out and exercise...I know you're not doing the competitive bodysculpting type of extreme work but I do hope you are staying active because I believe you need to keep your body in shape from a physical point of view otherwise your symptoms could actually become worse not to mention the possibility of your developing diabetes at some point and gain weight.

Are we certain you do not have PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome)? I remember your saying that you had an ultrasound or echo of some sort which showed some "cysts" in the ovaries? Was that either discarded as a "false alarm?" Or hasn't been worked up or looked at yet? PCOS does relate to insulin resistance which can cause hyperglycemia and that can certainly be as much a reason for brain fog (HIGH BLOOD SUGAR) as HYPOGLYCEMIA due to not eating properly or on time, etc. The truth of the matter is there is still swirling controversy regarding the exact effects on insulin that the ovarian and luteal cycle have. Some studies have reported and demonstrated insulin resistance while others have reported essentially no effect on insulin to any great extent. We do know that the ovaries have lots of insulin receptors. Kind of makes sense since it's a highly metabolizing organ on a monthly basis.

Now, there is a HYPOTHALAMIC-HYPOPHYSEAL-OVARIAN AXIS and so quite obviously there is a clear connection between the 2nd half of the ovarian cycle (your PMS phase) and insulin secretion. There is a known relationship between low progresterone levels and brain fog types of symptoms. A simple serum check of your progesterone levels would be able to detect this and correlate it to the time of your cycle to determine whether it is normal or not. Oral contraceptives can improve progresterone levels and could potentially improve this symptom.

Of course, you realize that as a neurologist I'm considerably outside my territory of expertise when I start delving into FEMALE HORMONES and your symptoms....though BRAIN FOG certainly is within my bag of tricks to explain....do you have another endocrinologist that you think could help out?

Orrrrrrr.....wanna take a road trip to Cleveland? We got LOTS of endocrinologists! LOL......BTW, I hope this answer is worthy of your HIGHEST START RATING POSSIBLE.....the last set of questions I only came up to a mere 80% level of proficiency (4 Stars)....my apologies for not hitting the highest marks. I hope this one will better hit the top because I always strive for that even if the area under discussion is not exactly in my wheelhouse. At least I have interesting theories!

Let me know your thoughts on things and answers to some of the questions you've posed.

This query required 111 minutes to read, research, and compile an envoy to the patient


Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
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Follow up: Dr. Dariush Saghafi (18 hours later)
Well the brain fog has intersected with my PMS days and with my menstrual cycle since late August. Except the whole month of August I was having an ongoing battle with the feelings. Then in September is when it went away, and only presented itself during PMS days or during the week of my menstrual cycle. And it's been that way since.
Last night I ate some nachos (big mistake... I should've known) and I was foggy for about 2 hours, then suddenly I began suffering some dizzy spells, and a racing heart. I thought I was about to pass out... It was scary and I had not felt that way since the second week of August. After that episode was over, I was left shaking and thinking clearly again. It was not fun. What could that have been? Adrenaline? But why was it suddenly turned on like that out of nowhere? Usually when I have felt foggy I just let it take its course and I'm just relaxed, so no I wasn't stressed out about it. It just kind of happened out of nowhere. It gave me a freakin panic attack I'll admit. But idk if that was physiological or mental Bc like I said, it kinda just happened out of nowhere then after it was over I felt normal again. And like I said, usually I'm always just relaxed when I get foggy thinking and I just let it run its course that it hadn't even phased me anymore.
Do you think such rigorous training in the past might've thrown off my hormones in some way?
I only have one cyst on my fallopian tune and I don't think it was big enough for concern.
Yes I still workout 4-5 times a week. I eat 5 times a day now. I still weigh around the same, 122lbs. I'm not wanting to gain any more weight.
I went to a different endocrinologist today and they are confused as well. All they told me is to stay away from high carb loads and to relax when I begin to feel like that. Which kind of sucks because life and duties don't always give you a chance to "just relax." They also told me to protein load in the morning rather than carb load. And they ordered some tests for anemia. So I don't know, that's about it. At least it's improved somehow (except last night). Being a female sure does such :(
doctor
Answered by Dr. Dariush Saghafi (29 hours later)
Brief Answer:
How about just simple food allergies?

Detailed Answer:
Hello there. Have you undergone what I believe a lot of advertising is dedicated to these days which is specific food allergies? Frankly, I don't know a whole lot about that topic (remember, I'm now outside the realm of my expertise as a neurologist! LOL) but my understanding is that there are labs that can test you for a whole truckload of allergies to specific foods and food substances...so, in the case of nachos which you believe resulted in 2 hrs. of floating away is it possible that occurred as a result of a food allergy? Also, were those straight away PLAIN NACHOS or was there a whole bunch of STUFF on the nachos such as frijoles, crema, salsa, etc. etc.? O posiblemente fue el nacho sin nada encima o adentro?

I doubt that previous body sculpting training permanently caused some whacky change in chemistry in your body sufficient to cause very severe and significant changes in mental status as you've described. I understand your meal times have been modified to 5x/day and you are weighing a very stable 122 lbs. and she works out 4-5x per week. You were told to "stay away" from HIGH CARB LOADS and to relax when she feels episodes.

I can't capture the difference between protein loading in the morning as opposed to carb loading but that's OK...if they think that will help. Sounds like maybe overall things could be improving. I've always thought that INERTIA could have something to do with your getting better. In order once you find a stable lifestyle to engage in with your workouts, diets, and dietary routines then, I believe you will lock in with your brain even more.

Therefore, I think my best advice is to go ahead and follow recommendations which have been suggested. I think that eating 5-6x/day is what you should get accustomed to doing now and using clean carbs as well as high protein content in all your meals- perhaps to replace some of the carb content in fact since this can still result in energy being produced and transferred to maintain your metabolic rate.

How about posting most recent results of: Vit. B12, Folate, Vitamin D, D2, and D3, serum pre-albumin, TSH, FT4, ESR, & CRP?
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Dariush Saghafi (3 days later)
Im not sure on my current vitamin status. Its been a like a month or two since I last got that drawn. As fat as food allergies, none that I know of. The adrenal gland test that they did, they only drew blood once randomly. But ive read that cortisol levels should be tested 4 times in a day in order for the test to be accurate? Is that right? I dont know why but I feel like that could have something to do with it.. Do you know if cortisol is involved somehow when we eat or in digestion? Because I think I read cortisol levels increase in the second half of a menstrual cycle which is when I feel that spacey drunk feeling. So my small theory is if they are already elevated as it is, and then they elevate more when I eat that may cause some kind of hypo tension which causes me to feel that way? Especially since I was training so strictly when this all first happened.. I dont know im taking shots in the dark here. Multiple doctors have told me that my blood pressure is quite low but they never address that. I've also been experiencing entirely way too much fatigue during this half of the month. It was worse back in August, I was just tired all day every day... And ive been dealing with certain hormonal symptoms. What do you think? Should I get that checked again???
doctor
Answered by Dr. Dariush Saghafi (26 hours later)
Brief Answer:
Random cortisol is Ok?

Detailed Answer:
It sounds as if they drew what we refer to as a RANDOM cortisol level as opposed to performing something a bit more precise such as a DEXAMETHASONE SUPPRESSION test. Cortisol is a steroid and when secreted it actually causes sugar rises to occur with the amount of cortisol being correlated to the glucose rise. I don't know the cortisol output during the output of a woman's menstrual cycle but it makes sense for it to be higher since this is during the degradation and sloughing off phases which sounds to me to be most coincident with when STRESS HORMONES/STEROIDS should be secreted in greater amounts...which should raise glucose levels. This would then, signal a large or at least a LARGER insulin release by the pancreas, which if sensitized, could result an overshoot of sorts and this may very well result in additional lowering of serum sugar and thus be related to dizzy, woozy, or lightheaded feelings.

You mention "hypotension" but cortisol release into the bloodstream tends to do the opposite which is ELEVATE blood pressure through the concomitant release of catecholamines (i.e. epinephrine) and this would therefore, result in a vasoconstriction type of effect. So blood pressure actually should be a bit elevated during those times when cortisol spurts are higher. However, because of the relationship of fatigue which can follow CHRONIC expression or higher than normal or at least unequal distributions or even OVERPRODUCTION of cortisol such as under stressful circumstances FATIGUE is well known to occur. This is because of the delicate balance of the HYPOTHALAMIC-PITUITARY-AXIS (HPA) which can be disturbed by irregular or more than normally stable amounts of cortisol production.

I do believe this is likely to have happened during your training years with the overall amount of constant stress you placed yourself under...both physically and mentally. Let me insert an actual QUOTE from the Dartmouth Journal of Science that discusses this HPA axis a bit more.

"The bottom line is that both episodes of acute stress and more prolonged stressful circumstances precipitate lower levels of general health, and exposure to such stress should be minimized. In the most extreme cases, Cushing’s Syndrome, characterized by dangerously high cortisol levels, can result. Those afflicted with Cushing’s experience rapid weight gain, hyperhydrosis, and hypercalcemia, along with various psychological and endocrine problems."

Now, please be aware that I'm not suggesting you have Cushing's syndrome which is more directly what they're talking about but I wouldn't be surprised if a part of what your feeling could be related to this HPA axis balance and I do believe you did say that gaining weight is much easier now than ever in the past. And FATIGUE is also a big part of this picture as well.

My feeling is that as time has gone on with you....things have slowly gotten back to a more normal state of affairs...we talked before of INERTIA....so now, your bottom little by little is readjusting to a new SET UP in terms of both activity levels as well as dietary intake and that you are not being as extreme as before with restrictions and ingestions of certain foodstuffs that you needed to watch due to the bodysculpting competitions. I think you'll potentially come back to even a better and more tolerable state of affairs with respect to your symptoms if you stick with a good, "not crazy" routine....remember, you also have diabetes to contend with in your gene pool so that's another factor that has to be taken into consideration. I'm not saying to be scared of it so that you go to any extremes but it can potentially try knocking on your door one day and so checking for that on a regular basis through simple blood and urine samples will help identify if that starts to occur at which point you can nip that in the bud if it happens.

I would be in favor of REDUCING THE OVERALL amount and types of testing and just focus on living well, staying at a comfortable weight according to your body dimensions...though those may be far above what they used to be for competition....you will still have a great looking physique if you allow yourself to live at an elevated set and rest point...which you've already done....and as I've said that should result in a better feeling of general health and well being with respect to eating and other abilities such as improving or overcoming fatigue.

Prove what I just said to me by sending a pic with you feeling your best....maybe 3-7 days before mid-cycle....which is when you likely are at your overall peak these days from what you've told me. You can either do a workout/gym picture or one where you're in a dressier pose. I guarantee you will have very proportionally satisfying body measurements though your fat percentage will be elevated over competition levels. What is your current fat percentage level at mid cycle and how about at either initiation or right at the end of your cycle? Does it fluctuate a lot? It shouldn't. I'm now thinking out loud and wondering about something called CGRP levels which in you will be at low normal amounts....and in my opinion that's a good thing. CGRP stands for Calcitonin Gene Related peptide and in humans it is known to occur in greater amounts when fat stores increase...in other words, it seems to be depoted in adipose tissue. It's primary role that we know of is a pain blocker and is currently used in medications marketed for control of migraine headaches. I don't recall you telling me anything about headache problems but another role for CGRP, which is automatically and normally produced in your DORSAL ROOT GANGLION cells as well as a few other select places in the body, is to mediate VASODILATION...so in a way this could be useful against the hypertensive effects of excess cortisol in the system which could occur under stress conditions as we talked about.

Anyways, there's something else that could possibly play into what we're talking about here in a positive way if we wanted to take a look at it or something down the road. But beware this is a relatively newer entity and I'm not sure that we should be getting too involved in this in your case....it was just a side thought given its relationship to fat stores (which is greater when body fat percentage goes up and less when it goes down) and how that could mediate other things by stabilizing or DEstabilizing those numbers.

If it's been a while since getting your Vitamin D, D2, and D3 then, maybe out of everything I mentioned I would ask to get that looked at....you could also throw in a total calcium, ionized serum calcium, and PTH level as well and see where those numbers are at.....everything I mentioned in my other post could be on hold.

Bottom line....I THINK YOU'RE GETTING BETTER....slowly....be patient.....maybe you won't NEED that trip to XXXXXXX ....but we're still in the middle some INCREDIBLE WEATHER up here that I know you'd enjoy if you came! That way we could map out your plan for the upcoming winter months so you stay healthy but well in shape! XXXX!

XXXX XXXX!

This query has thus far required 235 minutes to read, research, and compile an envoy to the patient
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Dariush Saghafi (13 hours later)
Could you help me put a hypothesis/theory together? From everything we have talked about? I just want to get a better understanding and a better grip on what might be happening in your opinion from all the clues we've gathered. We've had so many different discussions that I'm having a hard time remembering everything. It can be short and sweet, just something to help me... I feel like I have nothing and am clueless. Doctors here are so dismissive and just tell me my tests are normal but I like to understand what is going on with me that way I know what to do or avoid and when to do that. I would really appreciate it...
Something like... Intense training, strict dieting, and prolonged elevated periods of stress caused (A sensitivity?.. Here is the mystery) due to raised cortisol levels which might have affected hormones and/or insulin because... (whatever reason cortisol works with insulin).
So now the fluctuation of hormones or increased cortisol during the second half of a woman's cycle increases sensitivity after meals because (hormones are doing something during this time? Or the way the food is being broken down?) which then causes blood pressure or hormones or blood sugar to change (quickly?) which in turn causes fatigue, foggy thinking, eye pressure, etc.
I felt like I knew more or less what's going on in my body but needed someone with higher intellect to help me piece it together.
By the way... Why do I feel pressure in my eyes? Idk if I've asked that before... I've asked you too many questions so I don't remember lol. By the way, I notice some days those feelings go away quicker than other days even if it's the same meal. For example last night I ate about 3oz of brown rice, and 4oz of ground turkey and I was OUT. I will also mention I was running on little sleep yesterday and was feeling like that after every meal.
Today I slept about 9hours, didn't feel crappy for breakfast (I ate about 1 cup of Cheerios with a protein shake). Worked out, and ate 3oz of brown rice and 4oz of ground turkey again and I did not feel as bad as I did last night. It still happened but not as bad, and it vanished a lot quicker like in 15 mins. Versus last night I was out for like an hour, and even a small little tablespoon of peanut butter sent me into a fog for a bit almost as instantly as I ate it.
Weird right? So that's why I'm wondering if it has to do with the way certain hormones change every day... And why in the world I became sensitive to that. And does all this make sense as to why Meclizine is the one thing that makes those feelings go away as well? What is my brain/body thinking. It's so annoying! I'm even having to go see a therapist to talk about it because it really interferes with life. Imagine having to deal with this and still having to get things done. I'm so over it and so frustrated! I have to put so many things on hold because of it.
Anyway... Sorry for the venting. I'm just frustrated.
And yeah according to the guy my adrenal gland was fine. I don't know though I hate doctors here. It's obviously something and I guess at least knowing what is going on will help me stay at rest... It's frustrating not knowing. All of this is so mentally, emotionally, and physically exhausting... So I'm hoping birth control will help by stabilizing something. I don't know.. It's my last resort I really hope it works. I know I have to be patient, and I have been but it does get pretty difficult... It's not a fun experience that's for sure.
doctor
Answered by Dr. Dariush Saghafi (26 hours later)
Brief Answer:
Hey XXXX--- XXXX it out.....you are good to go!

Detailed Answer:
Nowadays, the buzz word is DESTRESS....whatever it takes....that can be more important than taking medication, more important than knowing the diagnosis, more important than even eating 3 square meals a day....DESTRESS...whatever it takes...by venting, singing in the shower, having more sex, having LESS sex...since stressing causes wild changes in hormones, glucose, cortisol, changes due dates of periods, babies, and when you should really be eating dinner.

In your case, leaving XXXXXXX for a week...or at least a WEEKEND...and coming by for a good solid medical examination, maybe get a good acupuncture session or 2..or 3. a session with a fantastic Sports Medicine Dietician, and leave with an awesome plan in place that you help design based on what you're looking for but without all the STRESS is just what the doctor ordered!

So in point of fact, I think I've said it before and I'll say it again. In my opinion I believe you're getting better by baby steps....you've recognized that yourself....so no need to really sound any alarms. I think you're on the right track. Remember, I'm JUST neurologist who participates in a bit of an extreme sport of wrestling requiring pretty intense dieting and weight loss myself over a very short period of time. So I'm constantly going through these ups and downs, changing my stress levels, my cortisol levels, my glucose levels, and my hydration levels. In my opinion and from I know from your situation my sense is that you are going in the right direction. I think you can keep working out but you CAN'T keep following that strict of a regimented caloric restriction anymore. Your body won't let you. I don't know if that is directly tied to your family's health history of DIABETES placing you at risk for that metabolic disorder or what...but your body simply won't allow you to do that activity anymore without consequences. So, you avoid it...and you've pretty much done that, right?

Yes, I do think that all the stuff you were doing before was just at the extreme end of the scale and while your reserve metabolic capacity was good enough to handle it back then, further forcing yourself to continue to follow that pace and rhythm is simply going to result in problems. However, the backlash of everything that has accumulated in terms of fat stores, carbohydrate burns, protein deficits you likely had but didn't realize, and even vitamin and mineral stores you may have had lacking is what suddenly tipped the scales in your case. I think stress probably played a huge role making it almost impossible to clearly see what was organic from non-organic.

But again, look at how you're improving day by day. You've got to be patient and settle for baby steps right now.

Pressure in your eyes is a well known complaint in people with headaches of the Stress or Tension type. You need to look at relaxation techniques, maybe some Tai Chi, biofeedback therapy, and Yoga...NOT HOT Yoga....paced breathing exercises, and visual imagery. Plus, great and continuous hydration is your friend.

So, again, probably figuring out exactly what HAPPENED or the few occasions that your body suddenly decides to be weird is less important in my opinion than not being stressed out about it...make sense?

Perhaps, you can get a list of food/beverage items that are associated with "fogging you out" and we can start either eliminating or reducing intakes of these items ONE AT A TIME and seeing how you feel.

So whaddya say?

Bottom line is that I believe things are getting better and you need to recognize that and CONGRATULATE YOURSELF for changing things around for yourself. Let's see if thinking POSITIVE thoughts now given your improvements helps more than being frustrated either at yourself, your doctors, or the fact that you've just got to change your previous routines....that's just the way it is.....you knew that, right?

What about SLEEP as well? Are you getting a good solid 6 or 8 or 10 hours of restful sleep without constantly popping up and down for things....or does stress tend to get in the way?

So how does all that sound? Unfortunately, this is the last question of this thread so you'll have to open a new thread if you want to go a few questions. :(

Or you could save your dollars on these questions and just put it toward a plane ticket and fly in to XXXXXXX for a few days (weather was UN-FRICKIN-BELIEVABLE this week...and still should remain this way, in the 60's....until the weekend....then, they say we are going to pay for such a mild November! HAHA!) and we would be able to put a plan in place and do a rigorous assessment with your cooperation and input.

Please don't forget to give me as HIGH A STAR RATING AS YOUR HEART DESIRES...BUT LAST TIME I APPARENTLY ONLY MADE IT TO 4.....:( Was it all the bad jokes I was telling? HAHA!

Total time on this series of consult- 296 minutes

Let me know how you'd like to go and be patient and XXXX.....XXXX!
Note: For further follow up on related General & Family Physician Click here.

Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
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Dr. Dariush Saghafi

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What Causes Fatigue And Brain Fog Before Menstrual Cycle?

Brief Answer: Now your brain fog has become part of your PMS? You poor girl! ;) Detailed Answer: I was wondering about how things were going....where did we we leave things last time? Did I have any "homework" for you to do? Who were you going to follow up with next? So, before you were getting the symptoms just at the point when you would eat anything.....so that could literally be 3x/day......now, it's possibly adjusted its schedule to 10-12/month intersecting with your PMS time of the month. It seems that this "brain fog" is adjusting itself almost on a random basis on a month to month basis or something so that it's rather unpredictable but no question that the frequency and perhaps the severity of the symptoms are less than before. Are you continuing to work out and exercise...I know you're not doing the competitive bodysculpting type of extreme work but I do hope you are staying active because I believe you need to keep your body in shape from a physical point of view otherwise your symptoms could actually become worse not to mention the possibility of your developing diabetes at some point and gain weight. Are we certain you do not have PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome)? I remember your saying that you had an ultrasound or echo of some sort which showed some "cysts" in the ovaries? Was that either discarded as a "false alarm?" Or hasn't been worked up or looked at yet? PCOS does relate to insulin resistance which can cause hyperglycemia and that can certainly be as much a reason for brain fog (HIGH BLOOD SUGAR) as HYPOGLYCEMIA due to not eating properly or on time, etc. The truth of the matter is there is still swirling controversy regarding the exact effects on insulin that the ovarian and luteal cycle have. Some studies have reported and demonstrated insulin resistance while others have reported essentially no effect on insulin to any great extent. We do know that the ovaries have lots of insulin receptors. Kind of makes sense since it's a highly metabolizing organ on a monthly basis. Now, there is a HYPOTHALAMIC-HYPOPHYSEAL-OVARIAN AXIS and so quite obviously there is a clear connection between the 2nd half of the ovarian cycle (your PMS phase) and insulin secretion. There is a known relationship between low progresterone levels and brain fog types of symptoms. A simple serum check of your progesterone levels would be able to detect this and correlate it to the time of your cycle to determine whether it is normal or not. Oral contraceptives can improve progresterone levels and could potentially improve this symptom. Of course, you realize that as a neurologist I'm considerably outside my territory of expertise when I start delving into FEMALE HORMONES and your symptoms....though BRAIN FOG certainly is within my bag of tricks to explain....do you have another endocrinologist that you think could help out? Orrrrrrr.....wanna take a road trip to Cleveland? We got LOTS of endocrinologists! LOL......BTW, I hope this answer is worthy of your HIGHEST START RATING POSSIBLE.....the last set of questions I only came up to a mere 80% level of proficiency (4 Stars)....my apologies for not hitting the highest marks. I hope this one will better hit the top because I always strive for that even if the area under discussion is not exactly in my wheelhouse. At least I have interesting theories! Let me know your thoughts on things and answers to some of the questions you've posed. This query required 111 minutes to read, research, and compile an envoy to the patient