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How to remove delusions of Schizophrenic patient ?

Hi, my brother is 29 year old. he is schizophrenic for past 9 years. he is tacking allopathic treatment to a psychiatrist for past 5 years. He is better now n started a job but his delusions is still remaining. he dont take faith rest of my family even some of his friend who say against his delusions. He know he has mental problem. Is it correct to let he know that he is schizophrenic n those are only delusions not reality. About his delusions we said many times but he fray that u are never believe in my matter n my supernatural powers. Otherwise he is very simple man he has no other bad habits like smoking, alcohols, lavish style of life etc. We want that he get settle in his life very well. He is only son of my parents.
Asked On : Fri, 25 Feb 2011
Answers:  16 Views:  846
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  Anonymous's Response
Well there will be no problem even after discontinuing the treatment, well i am sorry to say i don't know any Homeopathic physician in banglore, otherwise i would have really helped you, well if you want we can help you in this case, have you watched the video.
Answered: Fri, 25 Feb 2011
  Anonymous's Response
Hello Sir,


I m form Bangalore n just saw your guidance, I want to go with u n take Homeopathy treatment for my elder brother.My family is in Chhattisgarh.

I watched the video n ur site.that was very impressive. My parents will call u soon for next step. And I want to ask u that is it possible to conversation in video chat than u send the medicine by courier or it is necessary to meet u ? If it is necessary then my parents n my brother can meat with u at ur clinic.



thanks
Answered: Fri, 25 Feb 2011
  Anonymous's Response
Hi,
ya it is possible to have video conversation with the patient and still, if we feel that we need to meet the patient than we will ask you people to come to meet us at our clinic.
And we always believe to provide the best Homeopathic treatment to our patients.
And we provide strong Patient support to our patients on Phone, email and video chats.
Answered: Fri, 25 Feb 2011
Psychiatrist Dr. B Raghavendra's  Response
Hi,

Please, please DO NOT DISCONTIINUE THE ALLOPATHIC MEDICATION WHATEVER YOU DO. If you must, do take the homeopathic medication alongside the allopathic medication but DO NOT STOP THE ALLOPATHIC MEDICATION.

Please type “Hierarchy of evidence” in google and then read up on the relative positions of evidence based on the success stories of 1-2 cases (case reports), upto 10 cases (case series) and the top of the line evidence levels called “systematic reviews” and “meta analysis”.

Understand that what my anonymous/known homeo practitioner is showing will be case reports or case series. AND THEN CONSIDER THE EVIDENCE ON WHICH USA AND UK GOVERNMENTS TREAT THEIR PATIENTS FOR SCHIZOPHRENIA.

http://www.nice.org.uk/CG82
This is the guidelines page from NICE for doctors in UK. NICE is THE top government health body in UK, where the NHS (National Health Service) the government organisation provides free health care to all its citizens from toenail problems to cardiac surgery. IN UK if a psychiatrist does not follow these guidelines, then he MUST EXPLAIN WHY HE HAS DEVIATED FROM THE GUDIELINES AND IN A COURT HE WOULD NTO STAND A CHANCE IF HE HAS NOT TRIED THESE TREATEMNT METHODS FIRST BEFORE TRYING ANYTHING ELSE.

http://www.psych.org/mainmenu/psychiatricpractice/practiceguidelines_1.aspx
apa (American Psychiatric Association) guidelines are THE national guidelines for America, the same way NICE guidelines are for UK.

If you want, i can give links of evidence/guidlines from australia and newzealand as well as from canada.

The reason for giving these links is, go see the reference section of all the guidelines which list out all the evidence taken into consideration. These are not simple one man organisations taking only their experience in treati
Answered: Fri, 25 Feb 2011
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Psychiatrist Dr. B Raghavendra's  Response
The reason for giving these links is, go see the reference section of all the guidelines which list out all the evidence taken into consideration. These are not simple one man organisations taking only their experience in treating patients but THE GUIDELINES ARE BASED ON THE COMBINED WORLD EVIDENCE IN THIS FIELD.

THEN COMPARE IT TO WHATEVER EVIDENCE YOU HAVE SEEN IN THE VIDEO AND ASK YOURSELF A QUESTION “HOW DOES THIS COMPARE TO THE EVIDENCE INVIDEO AND SHOULD I STAKE MY BROTHERS LIFE BY STOPPING THE ALLOPATHIC MEDICATION FOR THIS MEDICATION WITH THIS LEVEL OF EVIDENCE BASE”

If you say that you will give the medication in addition to the medication that your brother is now being given, I WILL HAPPYLY SHUT UP MY F***ING MOUTH VERY HAPPYLI.

COMING TO YOUR BROTHER HAVING THE DELUSION EVEN AFTER BEING UNDER TREATMENT FOR 5 YEARS, there could be many reasons for this

1.     these could be symptoms which can not be cured by us allopathic idiot doctors and I am the first one to acknowledge that we can not cure everything under the sun……but that should be decided only after exhausting all the avenues.
2.     these could be “residual symptoms” ie.e symptoms remaining after the rest of all symptoms are successfully treated., as part of a type of schizophrenia called “residual schizophreenia”..there are some medication which WE MAY TRY IF IT IS THAT
3.     these could be due to mood symptoms and the problem could be “Schizo-affeective disorder” than pure schizophrenia. The fact that he seems to have grandiose delusions (of having supernatural powers etc) point in this direction. If that is the case then your brother is even more lucky than now as schizo-affective disorder, due to the affective/mood component will respond even better to treatment…he may just need the addition of another m
Answered: Fri, 25 Feb 2011
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Psychiatrist Dr. B Raghavendra's  Response
3.     these could be due to mood symptoms and the problem could be “Schizo-affeective disorder” than pure schizophrenia. The fact that he seems to have grandiose delusions (of having supernatural powers etc) point in this direction. If that is the case then your brother is even more lucky than now as schizo-affective disorder, due to the affective/mood component will respond even better to treatment…he may just need the addition of another medication or an increase of his current medication.
4.     it may be as simple as the fact that his current medication themselves are not in correct dose and a simple dose increase should solve the problem and so on and so forth.

SO WHAT I SAY IS, PLEASE DO BELIEVE IN THE PSYCHIATRIST WHO IS TREAITNG YOUR BROTHER CURRENTLY AND TALK TO HIM ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS, IF YOU HAVE NOT ALLREADY DONE SO. APOLOGIES IF THIS HAS BEEN DONE ALREADY.


Please also understand that if you are giving too many tablets (like homeo and allopathic tablets) he may start refusing the medication altogether. IN SCHIZOPHENIA, PATIENTS TAKING TABLETS IS HAFL THE BATTLE WON. ARE YOU GOING TO LOOSE AN ACTUALLY WON BATTLE BY GOING INTO ANOTHER WAR NOW WHEN HE IS STABLE ENOUGH TO DO A JOB?

I am ready to battle it out academically, with any practitioner who says that allopathic medication does not help schizophrenia patients, with you being the referee, to see WHOSE EVIDENCE IS GOOD AND WHO IS GOING JUST BY HIS/HER EXPERIENCE ALONE. I am ready to do this battle on video chat/video conferencing or even face to face, even if that means I have to come down to India from UK.
UNTIL YOU ARE COMPLETELY SATISFIED THAT YOU GET MORE BENEFIT FROM STOPPING ALLOPATHIC MEDICATION IN FAVOUR OF ANY OTHER SYSTEM OF MEDICATION, PLEASE DO NOT STOP HIS MEDICATION, I BEG OF YOU.

I DO NOT NEED TO SAY I BEG YOU, BUT IF IT MEANS THA
Answered: Fri, 25 Feb 2011
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Psychiatrist Dr. B Raghavendra's  Response
I DO NOT NEED TO SAY I BEG YOU, BUT IF IT MEANS THAT A YOUNG, DEPENDANT PERSONS LIFE IS SAVED BY THAT, BY ALL MEANS I WILL SAY I BEG YOU.

I AM NOT AGAINST ANY SYSTEM OF MEDICATION BUT I DO FAVOUR A KNOWN DEVIL THAN AN UNKNOWN ANGEL. Please. Please consider thousand times before stopping his medication.

I hope my effort in typing this long reply out is not wasted.
Answered: Fri, 25 Feb 2011
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Homeopath Dr. Gaurav Kackar's  Response
Hi,
can you please mail me all the symptoms of your brother condition at info@drkackerhomeoathy.com or yau can submit by going to our website at www.drkackerhomeopathy.com
Answered: Sat, 26 Feb 2011
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Homeopath Dr. Gaurav Kackar's  Response
Hi
A case, like this one , is not a cricket or football match ( astlest not for me) for which a REFEREE is needed.
Infact each and every case is a challenge , where I would not hesitate to apply all my skills to provide relief to my patient....so challege accepted!

A patient has the RIGHT & CHOICE to choose his doctor and MEDICAL SYSTEM, (espcially if he has tried convetional medical treatment for 5 yrs , without much/any relief. )

And lastly I belive RESULTS and EXPERERIENCE always and undoubedly supercede dead facts and data.

Takecare
Regards
Dr.Gaurav Kackar.
Answered: Sat, 26 Feb 2011
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Psychiatrist Dr. B Raghavendra's  Response
When someone says "Allopathic medicine does not help" to a brother of a schizophrenic patient I make it a personal issue and yes, I invite the person to a battle (acedemically-as I said.) Obviously, the initial "anonymous" (How very convenient!) initial answer saying allopathic medication does not help has now been removed by the adminsitrator and hence there is no proof now even of that. I wish I had saved the screen shot of that.

Dr Kackar, I am a severe type A haemophiliac and Homeopathic medication helped me through out my medical education....I will never forget that when I could not afford the costly allopathic medication, homeopathic medication helped me be what I am today.

BUT THAT DOES NOT MEANT THAT I WILL LET AN ANONYMOUS ANSWER PUT THE LIFE OF A SCHIZOPHRENIA SUFFERER WHO IS NOW STABLE ENOUGH TO DO A JOB, AT RISK. NO SIR, I WILL NOT ALLOW THAT.

And I will definitely not allow an "anonymous" answer which says "Well there will be no problem even after discontinuing the treatment," to go unchallenged.

It is your personal opinion sir that " RESULTS and EXPERERIENCE always and undoubedly supercede dead facts and data." WHICH IS IN ITSELF CONTRADICTORY.

THE DEAD FACTS & DATA, as you say, are in fact THE CUMULATIVE OUTCOMES of thousand clinical hours of psychiatrist EXPERIENCES (OBSERVATIONAL AND EXPERIMENTAL).

THE DEAD FACTS & DATA, that you so dismiss, are ROBUST ANALYSIS of RESULTS which have SIGNIFICANCE (BOTH CLINICAL AND STATISTICAL)

When trying to help others, I would rather go on the world wide cumulative experience which have been analysed in a cold and ruthless manner than depend on personal experience only which may be tinged by our biases and emotions.

AGAIN I SAY THIS, I WOULD NOT HAVE PICKED UP ANY ISSUE IF IT WAS SUGGESTED THAT HOMEO MEDICINE COULD HELP ADDRESS THE SYMPTOMS TOTALLY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BUT TO ADVICE A STABLE SCHIZOPHRENIC PATIENT'S BROTHER TO "STOP" THE MEDICATION THAT HE IS CURRENTLY ON (&STABLE) TO TRY (in other words experiment with) OTHER MEDICATION?

NO SIR I WILL NOT LET THAT GO UNCHALLENGED.

I believe that soon I post this reply, the 2nd anonymous answer will also disappear from the answers. It says "Well there will be no problem even after discontinuing the treatment, well i am sorry to say i don't know any Homeopathic physician in banglore, otherwise i would have really helped you, well if you want we can help you in this case, have you watched the video." And because I quote that answer here, my this reply may also get deleted/edited. How I wish there were forums brave enough to allow debate go on without censorship.

Finally, this is my last word on this as I do not want to have an "argument" with a professional who says he favours results and experience over dead facts and data (contradicting himself), who says "(espcially if he has tried convetional medical treatment for 5 yrs , without much/any relief.)" if a schizophrenic patient starting a job is not relief, then I don't understand what is "releif".


Yes, I am ready for the "debate" and thanks to dr kackar for accepting the proposal. Please name the time, mode, date and mode (video chat or text chat etc). But I still want the patient's brother to witness the debate.......as this is what my entire reply was about.....that a stable patient should not be disturbed that too in difficult to treat conditions like schizophrenia and that the patient's brother MUST MAKE AN INFORMED CHOICE. so, if not as a referee let him be there as a witness. And this debate shall not be about defeating homeopathy...I am no expert at homeopathy and
like my anonymous answer posting fellow, I will not say that any system of medicine is inferior or that it will not be of help to a patient. I WILL LET DOCTOR KACKAR BE THE PERSON TO CHOOSE THE FOCUS OF THE DEBATE AS LONG AS IT IS PATIENT CENTRIC.

kind Regards
Answered: Sat, 26 Feb 2011
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  Anonymous's Response
i think that some one who had already taken so much of allopathic treatment for about 5yrs and has no relief in such kind of case, should go for homeopathy, and it looks that some one here is very jealous of homeopathy, and not only this, abusing his own fellows (allopthic doctors of india) and begging does not leave a good impression.

Patient has right to choose which treatment he wants.
and if one is not working he can switch to another one.
being a patient i know yes Homeopathy works.
Answered: Wed, 2 Mar 2011
  User's Response
Hi,
what are the medicines and dosage of allopathic medicines of current usage ?These drugs should not be stopped abruptly but has to be withdrawn gradually over a period of time.Other wise severe RELAPSE may occur.
Homeopathic treatement is based on the symptomes and the Individual. Ask the homeophysician to prescribe the medication and the potency.Patient has a right to know what drug was prescribed to him.You can buy at your place in homeostores.
If he is a service oriented and non-commercial he will prescribe.


Answered: Wed, 16 Mar 2011
  Anonymous's Response
To the original question -

It is good to know that your brother has shown improvement with the medication so far. As far as the delusions are concerned, it may be a hard task to try and remove them completely. Delusions are false and unshakable beliefs. And beliefs need time to change. It may not be appropriate to confront him with his delusions, as he may react negatively and your efforts may be counterproductive. use your communication skills to talk with him about some of his delusions in a way that doesn't make him realize you are doing it. But it will be advisable to get him to meet with a Psychotherapist who can do the job for you. It's a tricky situation and the approach should be customized for his needs.

Do not discontinue the medication as it will most certainly bring back all the original symptoms that he had at the start of the treatment. You might talk with his doctor regarding any necessary dose changes or additions.

Schizophrenia is known to persist lifelong. However, with timely care and adequate medication, the symptoms can be controlled to a large extent and the person can live his life well.

Answered: Thu, 17 Mar 2011
  User's Response
If your has been dignoised for scizhoprenia then it becomes mandatory that allopathic medicines are required to have syntomatic control and maintainance dosages may be necessary to preevnt relapse,. so stopping medicines does not become a solution. However some delusions based on strong belif systems may not get cured with medicines and this needs approriate psychotherapeutic intervention. in the first phase it has to be made clear whether he is still experiencing delusions or faking for some secondry benefits. Cognitive behavior therapy which makes the person challenge his belif systems have been foud to be effctive in handling such delusions. More over i the query you have not given the details of the functional level of the person. If the person is kept fully engaged in produtive activities it can also be a effective suppotive measure. if this has not been happening then put him on a reahbilitative process. So meet a clinical psycholgist at the earliest for getting approriate solutions and all the process mentioned can be done when the person is continuing his medications

R.Manoj
Clinical Psychologist
rmanojcp@gmail.com
Answered: Mon, 22 Aug 2011
Psychiatrist Dr. B. P. Sinha's  Response
Welcome to Healthcaremagic, Continue medicines as advised by your Psychiatrist. Your brother is improved and busy in his job. Let him be in his delusion which is not harming others, Do not argue with him. More argument more it will be deteriorating for him. There are many schizophrenic who are living their lives well even having some harmless delusions. Thanks.
Answered: Mon, 12 Mar 2012
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Psychiatrist Dr. Dushad Ram's  Response
Dear Madam

If diagnosis of your brother is correct then there is two probable thing happening with your brother. first is whether he is receiving adequate treatment which mean in terms of dose, suitable combination if required and good compliance. Second possibility is he may be having treatment resistant type of treatment which requires more attention and monitoring by qualified psychiatrist to control the symptoms. Convincing about delusional nature of there believe does not help in such patient. Consult his psychiatrist and discuss about these issue.
hope he will get well soon.
Answered: Thu, 29 Mar 2012
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