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What Does High CD-8 Level In A CBP Report Indicate?

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Posted on Fri, 6 Jun 2014
Question: I was detected positive in Oct 2008. Then my VL was 6271 and CD-4 was 175. I was put on Viraday. Last year in May 2013 I stopped Viraday ( do not ask me why) and tried an alternative medicine ( homeopathy). The results are given below. Requesting you to shed some light on the same. I am aged 54 now and weigh about 79 kgs. My height is 5’11”. CD-8 levels are high.
I have no other complications but my sugar levels have gone upto 170 post lunch and fasting is 126. After stopping ART my weight increased from 73kgs to 78 kgs. The person giving the alternative medicine says the virus is deactivated. P17 antibody has been shown as absent in the last 3 WB tests I got done since stopping ART.
8.5.13 16.10.13 5.3.14 14.5.14
Range
Viral Load
HIV-1 RNA PCR ULTRAQNT <20 6956 <66.9 <66.9
Copy / ml
Lymphocyte Enumeration
Absolute CD45+ 1000-3000 2899 3110
% CD3+/ CD45+ (T-cells) 59 - 84 % 73.3 73.4 70 71
Absolute CD3+ Lymphocyte count 716 -2130 µl 1491 2084 2040 2204
% CD3+/ CD4+ (T-cells) 26 - 48 % 20.3 17.1 12 12
Absolute CD4+ count Lymphocyte count 354 - 1100 µl 414 486 346 369
% CD3+/ CD8+ (T-Suppressor cells) 18 - 41% 51 54.5 57 58
Absolute CD8+ Lymphocyte count 192 - 980 / µl 1039 1549 1666 1794
CD 4/ CD 8 ratio 0.57 - 2.03 0.4 0.31 0.21 0.21

I have other reports of CBP etc which I can send if required

I have written separately that I was seeking opinion from a specialist either physician or a specialist dealing in similar cases of the this disease. I did not know how the forum works and presumed it will be addressed by a specialist decided by you depending upon the type of problem. I was not looking for opinion of a homeopath specialist.

Hope you will take care of the above

thanks and regards
XXXXXXX
doctor
Answered by Dr. Sanjay Kumar Kanodia (29 hours later)
Brief Answer:
Reports showing good improvement

Detailed Answer:
Hello,

Welcome and thanks for posting your query to the forum.

I have gone through your complete query and after analyzing all the reports I can make out that you are responding well to the alternative medicine therapy.

Though we allopathic doctors are not really convinced with alternative medicines but in my own clinical experience with many patients with HIV, seeking one or the other medicine- some patients responds well to either their own or due to the effect of the alternative medicines. We are still searching the best medicine for the treatment as well as cure of HIV and therefore all the different fraternities of medicine can work together to get the best results.

Before I guide you regarding your reports let you understand the simple things about HIV and its serology as well as various cells detection.
In HIV the number of viral copies are detected by a advanced test known as PCR or Polymerase chain reaction. It is the test which amplifies the nucleic acid material ( genetic materiel) of HIV virus and therefore we are able to know level of HIV virus. A high level is bad and low level is good indicator.

Similarly there are various type of cells in our blood. In these cells white blood cells are most important in combating the infections in body. Amongst the white cells also there are certain important cells known as lymphocytes. Amongst these lymphocytes there are various functions assigned to each of the lymphocyte and therefore they are designated as particular number with a abbreviation CD or cluster differentiating cells. You can see that there are different type of CD cells such CD4, CD8, and many more.

These cells have a normal range of limit and therefore we clinicians decide the prognosis and health of a patient by the number of cells.


Now coming on your reports directly: Most of the reports related to CD cells are in normal range. You can make out that most of your reports are showing a normal range except for CD4 count. But the good news is that these CD4 cells has also increased close to lower range of normal limit.

The CD 4/ CD 8 ratio is still lower side because of the bit less nuber of CD4 cells. Though the number is better in terms of your status of health since 2008 ( from 175 to above 350 to 400 in last 1 year) but is considered best above 500. Even then looking to the status of all the reports I am quite satisfied with your reports.

For the best interpretation I would like to see the actual reports of HIV-1 RNA PCR ULTRAQNT and serial-wise CD4 count simultaneously. You can upload the report by utilizing our service. For that you have a feature to upload images by yourself at the right side of the query page. Or else, you can send as an attachment to YYYY@YYYY with the subject as "Attn: Dr. Sanjay Kumar Kanodia.

Hope to hear soon from your side.

Wish you good health.

Regards,
Dr Sanjay Kumar Kanodia
(MD- Dermatology & Sexually Transmitted Diseases)
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Prasad
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Sanjay Kumar Kanodia (1 hour later)
The report is attached. VL is below 66.9. Could it be that the virus is no longer there. The medicine is a unique form of homeoptahyAlso the CD-3 and CD-8 is rising and also above range. What does its signify and will it lead to any problem

I hope u noticed i have stopped the ARVs one year back
doctor
Answered by Dr. Sanjay Kumar Kanodia (7 hours later)
Brief Answer:
Most important parameter are CD4 cell & viral load

Detailed Answer:
Dear Sir,

Welcome again and thanks for your follow up as well as uploading your reports. After analyzing the actual reports let me guide you further:

- As I said earlier we can interpret that your CD4 cell count is decreasing and CD8 cell is increasing. It is quite natural in HIV to have decrease CD4 cells and therefore an increase in CD8 cells due to less CD4 cells as well as an isolated process. Accordingly the ratio also decreases. There is one more important part to be noticed that with increase in age also there is decrease in the ratio. As you are post 50 years so also the ratio can get affected a bit.

Though in most of the latest guidelines we consider CD4 cell count to be most important indicator along with viral load but for academic purpose the interpretation of the CD4 / CD8 Ratio is as below:In your self we can see that the ratio is 0.21. A ratio above 0.30 is considered bit better and below 0.15 is not good. Yours is between the two. Our main aim with ART is that the ratio should reach close to 1 and is considered to be best.

Let me tell you that the most important of all the parameters for HIV are the CD4 cell count and HIV viral load. The good news is that your viral load is less than 66.9 IU/mL and CD4 cell count has increased. So comparing all the result from the starting phase we can see that there is positive turn in all the parameters which are required for good health.

t is also important to note that you have stopped antiretroviral therapy since last 1 year and despite that the parameters have not changed majorly.

You should not get confused with other of T cell counts such as CD3 or CD45 as these are the main cluster differentiating cells and CD4 as well as CD8 are the part of these cells. These are not the important ones to be considered in deciding about treatment or for prognosis.

The only alarming thing is high CD8 cell count. I request you to kindly tell me about you present health status. Let me know if you feel any health problem including fever, diarrhea or any other issue like whitish tongue or any skin issues.

Though it is also a good indicator that you have gained 5 kg weight in last 1 year after stopping the ART. So considering all these facts it is quite obvious that your homeopathy medicine is going good provided you if you do not experience any other health issues.

I hope these information will help you. I will be glad to answer any further of your queries.

Wish you good health.

Regards,
Dr Sanjay Kumar Kanodia
(MD- Dermatology & Sexually Transmitted Diseases)
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Sanjay Kumar Kanodia (8 hours later)
My observation is that if high CD8 is because it is compensating for CD4, then when my status was known for the first time, my CD-4 was only 175 and both CD3 and CD8 were within range.

My general health is fine but sugar level has gone up to 170 post. In between I feel fatigued. Some joint pains when i wake up and muscle aches. I used to go for walks about 45 min daily. But because of the pain started cycling at home for 30 min with stretching exercises.

My muscle mass in arms and upper body is not increasing despite increase in weight and waist has increased from 34" to 36" and i am not happy about it

And you are the right person to advise. I have this white patch of fungal infection in between the buttocks at the starting point i.e ending of spine. small patch about 1-1.5 cms long. I keep applying nizrol cream but it does no go. this has been there for many years. once in while it peels of but the parch remains
I am sorry, in my anxiety forgot to even thank for the feedback. My apologies and thanks for the educating observations. I feel that there is something extraordinary in the treatment I am undergoing which apparently is traditional. from what I have learnt over these few years is that ARvs and medicines take over the body functions. that would mean that we are like on ventilator till they finish the job. in case of ARVs its for life. This persons theory is that the body should be taught to fight back and given support in that direction instead of medicines taking over the fight except where absolutely needed
doctor
Answered by Dr. Sanjay Kumar Kanodia (9 hours later)
Brief Answer:
Sugar control; Yoga with good diet

Detailed Answer:
Dear Sir,

Thanks for the follow up and adding more informations to your query. Though the interpretation of CD cells is sometime so complicated that even medical personnel also get some issues but I will try to simplify the issue.

As I said earlier that there are three most importation parts in your reports:

-An increase in CD8 cells

- A serial increase in CD4 cells

- A decrease in viral load

Amongst these three parts, the last two parts are good indicators while an increase in CD8 count indicates some sort of infection in body.

I can get that you have joint pains, muscle aches and a fungal patch over buttocks. Though in majority of cases with alarming upset we find fever, diarrhea or coated tongue but in your case there are minor of ailments are present. These show that though the body is trying to restore immune mechanism but is not able to do so completely. Therefore there is increase in CD8 cells.

A good thing is that the CD4 cells are also increasing progressively and therefore the major infections are prohibited partially.

As I said I favor your decision of taking homeopathy medicine as in many of patients on ARV the side effects are so high that the patient is not able to take complete doses. So your homeopathy medicine is definitely doing major good part to your immune system.

Regarding increase in blood sugar level is not directly a part of your HIV status. It is just an age related issues which all of us can have at the age of 54 years. So do not worry about the same. But it is important that your sugar level should be controlled properly otherwise the fungal infection will become more florid. One reason of white patch of fungal infection in between the buttocks can also be due to high sugar level. We many a times find fungal infections in diabetic or pre-diabetic patients.

So controlling sugar is an important part of improving your health status:
Additionally I suggest you certain more important points which I tell to my patients with your kind of status :

-     Doing yoga everyday. “Pranayama and Dhyana” are two most important ways to improve the immune status.

-     Stop any substance abuse like alcohol or smoking.

-     Follow a good dietary regimen with light and nutritious food.

-     Reduce your stress level. Do not think of HIV every now and then. It is also an infection which many a person in this world have and even more deadlier and fatal infections are present in this world. So do not think anything negative about yourself or your health status.

-     Give positive feedbacks to yourself and talk to yourself to give positive motivational suggestions.

For the part of fungal patch if I were your treating doctor then would have preferred to apply "Sertaconazole" (Onabet) cream with proper hygiene and strict sugar control.

A multivitamin supplement with vitamin B12 twice daily helps a lot in muscle ache and other type of pains. Do not prefer any pain killers as is not the mainstay of the therapy.

I hope these information will help you. I will be glad to answer any further of your queries or if not then can close the discussion and rate the answer.

For any future queries you can ask me directly at:

bit.ly/drsanjaykanodia

Wish you good health.

Regards,
Dr Sanjay Kumar Kanodia
(MD- Dermatology & Sexually Transmitted Diseases)
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Sanjay Kumar Kanodia (2 hours later)
Dear Dr. Kanodia,

Thank you for the feedback and suggestions. Will try to follow them.

Will also try the Sertaconazole. Hope that helps.

My sugar intake is vastly reduced to half a spoon per cup of tea and coffee ( about 5 cups a day). I have switched over to brown rice. For sweets I am depending on one spoonful of honey a day with lemon juice and fruits. Should I restrict any fruits?

I take a banana and a bowl of papaya every day. Also eat about 3 dates. Seasonal fruits like XXXXXXX

Thanks for the other link sent for any further correspondence and regards

XXXXXXX
doctor
Answered by Dr. Sanjay Kumar Kanodia (17 minutes later)
Brief Answer:
follow a regimen of good diet with proper routine

Detailed Answer:
Dear Sir,

My whole hearted good wishes for your good health. Do follow a regimen of good diet with proper daily routine to get best of health.

With all my best wishes,

Regards,
Dr Sanjay Kumar Kanodia
(MD- Dermatology & Sexually Transmitted Diseases)
Note: Get personalized answers to your HIV related queries You can choose to talk face to face with your doctor. Book a Video Call now.

Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
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Answered by
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Dr. Sanjay Kumar Kanodia

Dermatologist

Practicing since :2002

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What Does High CD-8 Level In A CBP Report Indicate?

Brief Answer: Reports showing good improvement Detailed Answer: Hello, Welcome and thanks for posting your query to the forum. I have gone through your complete query and after analyzing all the reports I can make out that you are responding well to the alternative medicine therapy. Though we allopathic doctors are not really convinced with alternative medicines but in my own clinical experience with many patients with HIV, seeking one or the other medicine- some patients responds well to either their own or due to the effect of the alternative medicines. We are still searching the best medicine for the treatment as well as cure of HIV and therefore all the different fraternities of medicine can work together to get the best results. Before I guide you regarding your reports let you understand the simple things about HIV and its serology as well as various cells detection. In HIV the number of viral copies are detected by a advanced test known as PCR or Polymerase chain reaction. It is the test which amplifies the nucleic acid material ( genetic materiel) of HIV virus and therefore we are able to know level of HIV virus. A high level is bad and low level is good indicator. Similarly there are various type of cells in our blood. In these cells white blood cells are most important in combating the infections in body. Amongst the white cells also there are certain important cells known as lymphocytes. Amongst these lymphocytes there are various functions assigned to each of the lymphocyte and therefore they are designated as particular number with a abbreviation CD or cluster differentiating cells. You can see that there are different type of CD cells such CD4, CD8, and many more. These cells have a normal range of limit and therefore we clinicians decide the prognosis and health of a patient by the number of cells. Now coming on your reports directly: Most of the reports related to CD cells are in normal range. You can make out that most of your reports are showing a normal range except for CD4 count. But the good news is that these CD4 cells has also increased close to lower range of normal limit. The CD 4/ CD 8 ratio is still lower side because of the bit less nuber of CD4 cells. Though the number is better in terms of your status of health since 2008 ( from 175 to above 350 to 400 in last 1 year) but is considered best above 500. Even then looking to the status of all the reports I am quite satisfied with your reports. For the best interpretation I would like to see the actual reports of HIV-1 RNA PCR ULTRAQNT and serial-wise CD4 count simultaneously. You can upload the report by utilizing our service. For that you have a feature to upload images by yourself at the right side of the query page. Or else, you can send as an attachment to YYYY@YYYY with the subject as "Attn: Dr. Sanjay Kumar Kanodia. Hope to hear soon from your side. Wish you good health. Regards, Dr Sanjay Kumar Kanodia (MD- Dermatology & Sexually Transmitted Diseases)